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  • LittleMissSunshine's Guide to Non-Tech Sub Builds

    (This is not my own work, and I do not claim it as my own, all credit goes to LittleMissSunshine/Mascara Negra/Wrestlertron, I'm purely just moving a good guide from the old forums to here on new forums.... Also, I have no clue where to place this here on the new forums as there is apparently no general FAQ. If this needs to be moved, feel free to move it. After this moment, everything's copied and pasted.)


    Hello everyone, I'm back on these lovely forums to talk about one of my pet favourites in TWG, the non-technical submission based wrestler! This is basically any wrestler that is based on submissions that isn't using the “technical class”.
    So we are talking about Strength-Sub, Speed-Sub, Resistance-Sub and Balanced-Sub.
    One thing all these share is a common pool of recommended submission moves, so I want to start off a very long forum post by talking about movesets!

    Any any player who has been playing TWG for a little while knows, your moveset is the basis of any build. So I will share with you the list of the best non-tech submission moves:


    Groggy


    Bear Hug (Might & Berserker = 62)
    Minimum Damage - 2
    Maximum Damage - 16
    -
    Two handed choke lift (Tireless & Thick Skin = 69)
    Minimum Damage - 3
    Maximum Damage - 15
    -
    Torture Rack (Rage & Unstoppable Blow = 67)
    Minimum Damage -3
    Maximum Damage - 15
    -
    Half Nelson (Ruthless Grasp + Feint = 67)
    Minimum Damage - 3
    Maximum Damage - 15


    Grounded
    -
    Fujiwara Armbar (Lightness & Frenzied Urge = 63)
    Minimum Damage - 3
    Maximum Damage - 15
    -
    Camel Clutch (Rage & Stiff Blow = 63)
    Minimum Damage - 3
    Maximum Damage - 14
    -
    Chicken Wing (Improved Reflexes & Frenzied Urge = 44)
    Minimum Damage - 4
    Maximum Damage - 11


    Bent Down
    -
    Side Head Lock (Improved Reflexes & Frenzied Urge = 33)
    Minimum Damage - 4
    Maximum Damage - 9
    -
    Abdominal Neck Wrench (Tireless, Toughness 34)
    Minimum Damage - 2
    Maximum Damage - 8
    -
    Octopus hold (Improved Reflexes & Lightness = 44)
    Minimum Damage - 5
    Maximum Damage - 8


    N.B. If you don't know how move unlocking works here's a quick guide:
    To unlock a move Skill 1 + Skill 2 must be equal to, or more than, the total skills to unlock the move. For example: I want to unlock Torture Rack
    My Rage and Unstoppable Blow must be at least 67 in total, so if I have 34 Rage and 33 Unstoppable that would unlock it (and is the most efficient way)
    Equally if I just have 67 Rage, that would also work, or 40 Rage and 27 Unstoppable or any other combination as long as the total is at least 67.
    However if a move requires a skill you cannot learn, you cannot learn that move!
    Even if you have 80 ruthless grasp for example, you cannot learn Ankle lock unless your a tech, as it requires Mastery the tech class skill.

    These are generally considered to be your best options, although there are a few other decent bent down moves in the 8 damage range (Canadian Backbreaker, Rolling Leg Lock) and a couple of other options in grounded if you don't like Chicken wing (Boston Crab, One Leg Boston Crab, Dragon Sleeper) however they are a less efficient way of spending your points in my opinion. There are also a 1 or 2 submissions in minor positions (Jumping armbar takedown springs to mind) but they aren't really worth including as part of a moveset, due to the fact that they aren't in a useful position. But if you unlock them while getting other moves they are worthwhile using.

    Now which moves you go for and in what order you go for them will really depend on what class your playing, as a general rule I like to get Torture rack first, splitting the points evenly between rage and unstoppable. This will give me 34 rage (35ag) to make a really decent finisher as soon as possible (and that's really, really important) and 33 attack bonus (which will help nicely as well). As always you want to pick 3 moves in each main position.
    Strengths can get this with 34 Strength, as can the balanced class if they don't invest in anything else, other classes will need 40 Strength.
    As for your next step it depends mainly on what class you are and how you like to build. For a resistance Two Handed Choke is always a good second move to aim for (Max tireless and thick skin, dump the rest into toughness for abdominal, or endurance), speeds can aim for Fujiwara, its entirely up to you really.

    Just focus on unlocking your moveset and getting 40+rage for a killer finisher.

    Okay so we have our moveset sorted, or we are working towards it, this is our basic build. Lets now talk about Advanced Techniques, defences, fine tuning your build and variations.

    Which defence should I use?
    (By defence I mean Block/Dodge/DR)

    This is a commonly asked question, as a general rule I would avoid Block, DR based submission tank type builds can work very well, as can dodge based builds (especially if your a speed or a strength.
    So why avoid block? Well block and dodge are almost identical anyway and your going to be putting points in Improved reflexes anyway if your using the recommended moveset, so why would you then waste EXP by increasing block through Advanced Techniques or private gym? Dodge works just as well and already has points invested in it, dodge just makes a lot more logical sense. DR is your “easy option” DR works extremely well, especially against masters. Really the only downside is your “natural” DR might not be that high (unless your a resistance) and that you will get less exp and executions when compared to dodge users.

    What Advanced Techniques (ATs) would you recommend?

    As with most builds you want mainly 4 different ATs: Defence, Stamina, Attack, Damage
    Defence will depend on if your using Dodge, DR (or even block) I generally use defence to stamina in a 2-1 ratio. (So 2 defence ATs for each Stamina AT) Attack wise you really only need Attack Bonus, I would generally avoid investing in submission bonus unless your opponents are starting to put serious amounts of points into Escape Submissions, or your opponent is simply escaping all your holds (you can double hold 90% of your submissions with a surprisingly low amount of submission bonus).
    Damage wise you have two options, DDI and SDI, DDI will increase the initial damage of the move and that will help the move hold in my experience, SDI will increase the holds damage. Generally I would increase SDI over DDI unless your opponent starts escaping your holds.

    Specific Build/Class Ideas
    Okay so now I have talked about non-tech submission builds in general, I'm going to go into a bit more detail for each class, and talk a bit about other options.

    Balanced Class Submission Builds (FAQ)

    Should I level my Versatility? I would suggest any balanced should get at least 11 versatility, just to unlock Uraken, which is one of the best standing moves in the game. So even if your going for an entirely submission based build 11 versatility is the way to go. I would start this build by getting Versatility to 11, then working on torture rack.
    What defence should I use? I would definitely use dodge or DR for this build, either works well.
    What other options do I have? Okay so you don't want to go all submission? That's fine. You can mix in Direct Damage or Bleed moves. Bleed-Submission works particularly well. If I was doing this I would go for 2 bleed moves to 1 submission move in each main position (Groggy, Grounded, Bent Down) and go with as many bleed moves as possible in each other position (up to the recommended 3 moves in each position)
    You will probably want to increase your Versatility to 41 and rely on that to power your submissions, mainly using AB and DDI for your attacks.
    Stick with dodge or DR as your defence (DR is pretty awesome with this build)


    Strength Class Submission Builds (FAQ)

    A strength based submission? Surely that can't work? Well yes it can, it can work well. You can combine the natural strengths of a strength class wrestler with the power of submissions. A huge finisher and powerful submission moves from the strength class are the key to building this wrestler.
    What defence should I use? It has to be dodge, you won't really have enough HP to sustain your DR, dodge and counterattack is the best way.
    What other options do I have? Okay so you don't want to go all submission? That's fine. You can mix in Direct Damage or Bleed moves. Bleed-Submission works particularly well. If I was doing this I would go for 2 bleed moves to 1 submission move in each main position (Groggy, Grounded, Bent Down) and go with as many bleed moves as possible in each other position (up to the recommended 3 moves in each position)
    You will probably mainly using AB and DDI for your attacks, with the submissions being a secondary skill.
    Stick with dodge as your defence.


    Speed Class Submission Builds (FAQ)

    Should I level quickness? NO! One of the great things about doing a speed-sub is that you don't need quickness, as you will be relying on your submission moves. Quickness as a skill is pretty terrible, its only there to unlock moves. The strength of the speed submissionist is that you will generally hit more moves, get more exp and have more lightness than other classes - bonus!
    What defence should I use? Dodge all the way! Its not even a question.
    What other options do I have? Okay so you don't want to go all submission? That's fine. You can mix in Direct Damage or Bleed moves. Bleed-Submission works particularly well. If I was doing this I would go for 2 bleed moves to 1 submission move in each main position (Groggy, Grounded, Bent Down) and go with as many bleed moves as possible in each other position (up to the recommended 3 moves in each position)
    You will probably mainly using AB and DDI for your attacks, with the submissions being a secondary skill.
    Obviously stick with dodge as your defence.

    Finally my old favourite! The FATech
    Resistance Class Submission Builds (FAQ)
    Should I make Endurance a priority? Personally I would make my moves a priority, getting Endurance and levelling your DR/HP takes a much lower place than it would do with a normal Tank. Once you have a working moveset, then is the time to get DR. This will make you less “tanky” and a bit weaker at the start, but getting those move levels in your submissions will help you massively in the long run.
    What defence should I use? It has to be DR, your basic FATech is a DR user that uses submissions, DR is still your main defence.
    What other options do I have? Okay so you don't want to go all submission? That's fine. You can mix in Direct Damage, Bleed or even Pin moves. Bleed-Submission is quite hard to work as a resistance, but Pin and Damage can work quite well, it also allows you to use moves like Big Splash and Triple Powerbomb Pin. If I was doing this I would go for 2 other to 1 submission move in each main position (Groggy, Grounded, Bent Down) and go with as many bleed moves as possible in each other position (up to the recommended 3 moves in each position)

    Other Thoughts:

    If you have TP available, you can always start as a “standard” build for your class and reset to a submission build later
    These builds may not be suitable for new players, they are generally more complicated than “standard” builds
    Submissions can be powerful tools in any build, play around, don't be afraid and find out what works best for you.

    N.B. I would like to thank Thing / Bustin Dustin for inspiring me with his FATech build on S3, helping kickstart my love for unusual or different builds.


    P.S. If you have any questions or just want to chat, feel free to contact me in game, I don't check my forum messages very often.
    Last edited by Tom Midas; 02-12-2013, 02:12 AM.

  • #2
    I'd like to contribute something to the conversation. As a balance that is currently working through the submission build, I think it is important to remember that ANY non-traditional build is going to take time to get where you need it to be. Most importantly, activity is going to be the biggest factor in your success at a non-tech sub build. If you can't have the activity to build up your power grappling and/or ruthless grasp through AT's, none of it will work well for you.

    Here is what I have discovered and I'm hoping that someone will contribute something to my observation. Balance should in theory have the greatest advantage in this type of build because we can unlock the end-game sub moves quicker across the board (except in tech). But you have to be really careful with how you allocate your points. I SHOULD be about level 12 or 13 right now based on my movelist, but I'm in level 15 and getting owned by pretty much anything that can stand on two legs.

    I think that the author is correct that if you really wanted to do it, you should wait until you have a pretty massive build, and then reset into one of these formats. It will save you a lot of frustration and headache to do so.

    If they're done right, they're alot of fun, but they take matches, matches, and more matches to make them go.

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