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  • Steven's Bleed Str Guide

    So yeah, decided to try my hand at writing a somewhat detailed guide on Str, Feel free to voice complaints, suggestions etc.

    (Honestly, a lot of what I may make note of here, I'm using some personal choices, etc. for moves. I encourage you to form your own opinion on moves, which you'd prefer, which you'd be fine getting rid of from this Guide)

    Also, I'm basing this off of s3's model for stats etc, so mentions of running out of money extra can be somewhat ignored for s1/s2 models.

    Not that I've stated all of that, let's get on to the guide itself.


    Moves (These are by no means the move you need to choose, just listing some of the more likely moves you'd be looking at possibly picking up):

    Opening: In general, I prefer to stick to Knee on the head and Punch for two of my spots. Why one might ask? Because they are the only two opening moves with a chance to bleed. Why is this a factor? Because I've won matches by ko by hitting 2 knee on the heads in different points in the match and getting a progression along the bleed chain. As for a third move, I'd honestly see it being between throat thrust and Euro Uppercut, I personally prefer Throat's slightly higher minimum damage, but either/or could work.

    Standing: Roundhouse Kick, Elbow Smash, and Mule Kick: My reasoning for picking these are that Honestly, early on in the match I'd prefer to go to groggy, with a chance to go to bent down. Elbow Smash also has that chance to bleed, which is great for possibly continuing the cutting chain that could occur from the two opening moves I listed. If you feel you'd prefer to go to bent down more often, Arm Wrench or Powerful Knee strike would be decent to sub out Roundhouse (if you want to keep the wounding standing move) or Elbow Smash (if you feel your standing position doesn't really cut enough to warrant having a bleeding move)

    Bent down: (Woah boy, now options really get varied.) Double Underhook Piledriver, Piledriver are two of the moves I'd suggest in almost in any form. Both have high base damage and a decent bleeding chance... now onto options for the third move:

    A.) Do you want a third bleeding move? If so, I'd say Jumping Half Nelson Facebuster would be a good move to shoot for, just note it would take a long while... Half Nelson Facebuster is a decent option too if you go the dodge route. Inverted DDT is fairly good, but seeing as the skills required for it are power grappling and ruthless grasp, I wouldn't suggest it if you plan on using block or are planning to go for TKO (which I shall get to in a few moments)

    B.) A pure damage move: Belly to Belly Piledriver is pretty great in this regard. Released Powerbomb is also good in this regard.

    C.) A move that can lead out of the ring... Why can this be good? Because focusing a move that can lead outside in your moveset allows you to have slightly more control over those out of ring positions, which contain some of the strongest base damage moves in the game. Good moves in this regard are Released Powerbomb once again, Brainbuster (Which also bleeds, but would require block and power grappling, so if you're going dodge route, might not be worth it.)

    Groggy: This is less set in stone compared to Bent (in my opinion). There's actually quite a few good moves that all have their merits.

    First off, I'd personally choose Chokeslam. as it is the best damaging groggy move Strengths have, it leads to grounded (always fairly good), and has a chance to lead outside (also fairly good.)

    As to suggested bleed moves, I really wouldn't shoot for Jumping Twisting DDT. Even if you go block route, you still have 3 other skills that I'd focus on before elasticity, so would be a long -long wait otherwise.

    TKO would probably be the "easiest" option for your ''better'' bleed move if you choose to run 2 bleed moves in the position. If you go the dodge route, you probably would only be focusing on ea and feint anyway. Otherwise it's a decently long wait, but nothing too horrid.

    Jumping Piledriver is another option as well for a bleed move, but there's also a somewhat interesting possible case by having Death Valley Driver as your third possible move...

    Chokeslam, TKO, and Death Valley Driver all have a chance to lead outside, the latter two have a bleeding chance, in a theoretical best case scenario, at some point during the match I could hit Knee on head (cut) elbow smash (next step in bleed chain) tko (again another step in the chain, also sends opponent out of the ring where a secondary strategy can come into effect.)

    as to non bleed moves that could be decent:

    Olympic Slam: If you wanted to pick up TKO, technically you'd be halfway to this if you hadn't leveled block ( if you're doing dodge though, eh, not really worth it imo); Can lead out of ring.

    Body Press to front Slam: Decent damage, purely from str,

    Grounded: Back to somewhat eh pool to choose from... not really all that many options in my opinion.

    Leg Drop- Pure damage move, leads back to itself, probably your best bet to hit large amounts of damage.

    Rocket Launcher: Bleeding chance, can lead back to Groggy, can lead outside, in the case of grounded moves not horrid max damage, I'd probably pick this up for my definitive bleed move, but eh.

    Two Handed Facebuster: Bleeding chance, the best bleeding move that stays in the same position.

    Fire Spin: Leads back to itself, only other confirmed move that leads outside besides rocket launcher in the grounded position.

    You Are Running: Really only viable moves are Flying Forearm Smash, Flapjack, and maybe running swinging neckbreaker (lariat has a chance, along with flapjack, of leading outside, so might be worth subbing out rs neckbreaker)

    Running Opponent: Polish Hammer (bleed, chance to go outside), Running Knee Smash (bleed, chance to go outside), Tilt a whirl piledriver (bleed, chance to go outside), really not a whole lot else

    One Wrestler Running: Spinning Wheel Kick (bleed, chance to outside), back elbow smash, whatever third move you want.

    Both Wrestlers running: Dropsault (bleed, chance to go outside), really anything you want to get for the other two.

    Out of the Ring Grounded: Leg Drop on Apron ( one of the best damaging moves in the position), Knee Drop on Stepladder (From just str, bleed), Spinebuster on Stepladder (same as Knee Drop)

    Out of the Ring Standing: Big Splash Outside the Ring (best damage move in the position), Powerbomb to the concrete (Good damage, bleed), Spear through the crowd barrier (ok damage)

    The next four positions I wouldn't personally worry about as the positions hit so rarely (at the moment) these should take a back seat to all the more common positions.

    To the Ropes Grounded: Rolling thunder (if a Block route character, maxed lightness is a priority and is actually fairly easy to get it.), Pescado (if you pick up tko, you're only 4 levels of ruthless off from it, so if you're otherwise done with tech move wise, could be decent to pick up.), any third move

    To the Ropes Standing: Walk on Rope... Springboard Enziguri Kick if you went dodge route... anything you can find

    To the Turnbuckle Grounded: Rolling Wheel Kick, Maybe Shoulder thrust at the turnbuckle... a third move you find useful?

    To the Turnbuckle Standing: Tornado DDT (Bleed, decent damage), Gorilla Press slam (Fairly easy to get), Super Brainbuster (bleed, ok damage), Super Belly to belly Suplex, (actually quite a lot of fairly easy to obtain good moves here

    Back to a more common position

    Stunned: Double Knee Drop from the Turnbuckle (bleed, great damage), Spear (Great damage, can lead out of the ring), Diving Spear, Great Damage... if dodge route, Diamond Dust is a decent second bleed move (ir and frenzied), if not, could look into Super DDT


    Stats:

    As you start out, it seems intuitive to max out your own class stat the most... and at least early on this is true.


    Depending on what moves you'd want first, Rage, Might, Fury, Berserker, and UB all have reasons to be focused on. In most cases it's best to attempt to get all your str skills to 40 each fairly quickly, but let's delve into what you should max out.

    Most folks reckon Leg Drop is the move to shoot for first. If you reckon this is the case, go Rage + UB to 40 each first, then I'd transition to a mix of Might (for piledriver and Chokeslam, two moves that would net you at least 1 good move in each position.

    If you feel you can live without Leg Drop however, feel free to upgrade towards whatever move you feel would be your best final tm and then eventually pick up leg drop.

    As a suggestion, I'd pick one of the moves that'd need Rage first and foremost, as that would also net me a 1000 ac finisher quickly.


    As for the skills themselves if you are going to go by a purely pragmatic path to pick up your moves:

    Might: Simply put, early on might is actually kind of eh usually. Without -any- decent moves, that 100% DDI will do what on that knee stomp who's max damage is now mid 30's... 60? A brand new Leg Drop can hit past that with 0 DDI... It has some pretty wonderful moves however, and after you unlock at least one or two moves you plan on keeping (Let's Say Leg Drop and Spear for an example), it is well worth it to level it... Also somewhat worth it earlier on if you're facing people with loads of DR (which is somewhat the enemy of bleed moves... kinda.), but against most other builds, the early uses are somewhat slim.

    Rage: One of the huge pluses of being a strength is the ability to get a monsterous ag early. That being said, aside from fins (to my knowledge), ag has little use, so one could argue that those earlier points on something that helps throughout the match, like say AB. While that is somewhat the case, a lot of the good moves in the common positions usually need (or would be quicker rather) with Rage, so with that in mind, I'd suggest getting rage to 40 as soon as possible.

    Unstoppable Blow: In my opinion, this is one of the better stats to focus on early on. Most strengths early on have little to no defenses, so it's fairly vital to make sure our offense lands. It also bring abouts leg drop, which is always a plus. Please note this isn't the only Attack skill you'd need to focus on.

    Stiff Blow: It's somewhat peculiar this skill. In all honestly, it's fairly easy to cut without really any bleed bonus as long as your moves have decent wounding. Eventually you'll likely want more of this, but in my experience at least DDI is more of a factor.

    Berserker (STAT ONLY): To a newer player, this skill can be somewhat confusing as to what it does, thusly, I shall quote Abdel's Example from his game mechanics thread, and highlight (read: change color) each part as it pertains to frenzied urge, berserker, feint, and pacification.:

    A: after the 3 first attacks of an attack sequence, the difference between your feint and your opponent's berserker determine your chance of interrupting his attack. Your chance of interrupting the attack sequence will then increase by 5% (no cap applied) each turn until you stop the attack sequence or dodge/block a move.

    Example:

    Attacker: 10 allowed attacks (20%) & Wrestler 2: 3 Denied (50%)

    - The maximum number of moves the attacker can have per attack sequence is 7. Where the first 3 are guaranteed to hit.

    - The fourth attack then will have a default chance of 95% to hit (if say they had 0% Berserker & Feint). After adding the attackers berserker, and deducting his opponent's feint, his chance of attacking successfully is 65% (95% + 20% - 50%). 5th turn will have a percentage of 60%, 6th = 55% .. and so on.


    So, in effect, as you can see here, for the first three attacks in a sequence (the maximum of which is determined by frenzied urge), Berserker technically doesn't matter. If you have a relatively small amount of attacks allowed, having a relatively high amount of berserk still isn't very vital (in this case, on the fourth turn, you still have a 2 out of 3 chance of the attack occurring successfully even with 30 less berserker than opponents feint.., so if your allowed attacks minus an opponent's attack denied is say a total of a max of 4 attacks, as long as you're within 20% you'd have a 3/4 chance of the sequence being successful, and that's assuming they have a fairly large amount of feint, which not a lot of people do.) for the fact not a lot of people maximize feint early on.

    Now if this had been equal berserker and feint, however, a difference would occur in the fact it would slowly decrease from 95%, to 90% and so on. in this case, after the 3rd move, you'd still hopefully want to have the chain continue to it's max... and with equal (let's say 50% berserker, 50% feint), you'd still have at the last "possible" attack in the sequence (7th) be at a rather cushy 80


    If it's greater than most of your opponent's feint, it'd be fine to let sit. to take that above example one last time, let's have the percentages be say 40% for berserker, 20% for feint

    On the 4th attack, you'd have (95%+40%-20%), you'd have (technically) 115% which means your attack would be 100% guaranteed to occur (could still be blocked/dodged), on the 5th turn, it'd be 110%, then on the sixth, it'd be 105, and on the last max (still assuming you haven't been blocked/dodged), it would finally actually be 100%.

    Thusly, once you start racking up Allowed attacks from frenzied urge, the more moves maximum you can have, the more you'll want/hope for your berserker to be fairly greater than their feint. Thusly, personally I'd suggest once you have all your moves, only really focus on this (and maybe a bit of fury) from strength.

    Fury: For this skill, it's easily one of the ones you want to upgrade early on as it's unstoppable blow and might rolled into one. To be honest, somewhat less vital for unlocking moves than some of the other str skills in this sort of build, but often one of the best skills to shoot for after getting your first "end game" move.

    ===
    Speed:

    Improved Reflexes: Unlike a lot of people, I'm not really hugely for or against either Block or Dodge. in the case of this build however, I'd say I personally prefer Block, but dodge can be fairly decent if you're possibly willing to note that you'll split between three fairly vital in this case and one fairly major skills in one stat. In effect however, this allows you to dodge your opponent's attacks, and inversely, acts against -your- ab if your opponent has it.

    Head Start: Initiative in other words, allows you to take control when something along the lines of:

    (Name) gains the initiative exploiting his quickness!!

    The two wrestlers stare proudly at each other
    and then engage in a exciting test of strength, trying to overcome their opponent
    after a few, seemingly endless, seconds and an enormous effort (Wrestler) prevails, etc.


    It's good to have a decent amount of this, but seeing as whoever has the highest of this gains the initiative after pin attempts etc, it would be fairly decent to keep a check on how much your usual opponents have.

    Lightness: In my opinion keep this maxed out. In essence, this makes moves you execute take away less stamina from you (it's also dependent on stamina, so you still need a decent bit of stamina for this to be useful).

    If you plan on having anything resembling a "huge" finisher, it's vital you have a good amount of this.

    Elasticity: Honestly, I wouldn't touch this for the most part no matter whether you go block or Dodge route. It could be decent to get one or two moves, but build wise it's fairly pointless for bleeding, and equally pointless the fact you'd only have mid thirties max of this for the moves. Personally, I say there are better skills to put points in in speed.

    Frenzied Urge:Goes somewhat along with berserker but directly goes against Pacification. Note: You'll only gain an allowed attack ever 5 levels of this

    A: after the 3 first attacks of an attack sequence, the difference between your feint and your opponent's berserker determine your chance of interrupting his attack. Your chance of interrupting the attack sequence will then increase by 5% (no cap applied) each turn until you stop the attack sequence or dodge/block a move.

    Example:

    Attacker: 10 allowed attacks (20%) & Wrestler 2: 3 Denied (50%)

    - The maximum number of moves the attacker can have per attack sequence is 7. Where the first 3 are guaranteed to hit.

    - The fourth attack then will have a default chance of 95% to hit (if say they had 0% Berserker & Feint). After adding the attackers berserker, and deducting his opponent's feint, his chance of attacking successfully is 65% (95% + 20% - 50%). 5th turn will have a percentage of 60%, 6th = 55% .. and so on.


    Now, obviously, having as many attacks possible in a sequence is best, but in that regard, do remember that without decent berserker, your chances of running even close to the max moves the allowed attacks, well, allow is low, for example: If you for some reason ran 0% berserker instead of the 20% in the example above, you'd start out with 45%, and decrease to the point your last attack in the chain (if you somehow got to it) would be 30%, less than a third of a chance to happen.

    ===
    to be continued

  • #2
    I'm curious why you opted for non-bleeders in your move set Steven. Adding in non-bleeders lowers your chances of ko's, and dilutes your move set as well.

    Comment


    • #3
      When I run a full bleed move set I shoot for all bleeders in as many positions as possible. I'll pick moves with less damage or wounding just to mix things up. I agree with you about wanting to see different moves in matches, and not the same old same old. At the point in the game where I'm at, you can use just about any move as long as your AT's are set up right.
      Moves that lead outside the ring don't do much for me tbh. I feel like most of my matches are settled in the ring, and by finishers.

      Linking moves together though, as you've talked about is HUGE.
      The more people think about that, the better.
      Do you also leave FE in your movest after reseting? Or do you shoot for a consistent amount of FE in your move set? I feel like near the end levels of the game, having your moves properly leveled really really helps.

      Comment


      • #4
        You build is not a Bleed build and its very confusing. All bleed moves in main positions will do much better.

        Comment


        • #5
          Adding in non-bleeders lowers your chances of ko's, and dilutes your move set as well.




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